Saturday, September 22, 2007
Dual Enrollment in High School Courses
I am a high school teacher in small rural Southside Virginia and a doctoral student at NOVA Southeastern University in Florida. My school system has recently initiated a dual-enrollment program with nearby community colleges where a student can earn enough college credits in high school that he can graduate from the community college with a two-year General Studies transfer degree at the same time he graduates from high school. The intention is for the student to transfer to a four year university and be able to complete it in two years. I have decided to write my dissertation of the impact this has on our students. I am interested in hearing from anyone, student, teacher, guidance counselor, community college or four year university professors, and parents about how you feel about this issue. I am particularly interested in hearing from any of you that have experienced this and can tell me about the adjustments you have had to make. How did this impact you socially, mentally, and academically and also how receptive to your dual enrolled credits was the university you attended. If you have any information you can share with me, or even just your personal opinion, I would appreciate it.
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19 comments:
Hello Debbie,
A small town in North Carolina is just starting the dual enrollment courses for students. I will be interested to know how it works compared to your experience.
We have 5 children; 3 of them already went to college, 1 is in college and 1 is in high school and for some reason none of them ever demonstrated interested in dual enrollment. This program may entice parents and educators because it keeps students academically challenged throughout high school and focused on their postsecondary education. This program offers so many courses that students may be able to graduate a semester early and possibly a year early. Along this line, another benefit and this is mainly for the parents, is the opportunity to save on college costs. Twelve (12) hours of college credits transferred to any college is a savings of approximately $8,000.
Wanting to have a first hand opinion about this matter I talked to some of my daughter’s friends who participated in the dual enrollment while they were in high school. They eagerly expressed their satisfaction with the experience. The first lesson they learned, and now is part of their routine, was how to manage their time wisely. This is a must, they said, because of the demands of the program. They also were able to make up their minds earlier regarding their college majors.
Others don’t agree. These people claim that some students who are allowed to participate in dual enrollment are not ready for the coursework. They are of the opinion that taking college courses in high school, as opposed to on-campus, students are not being exposed to the real college life. Furthermore, they indicate that these young students may even get frustrated because they may feel they don’t fit in the world, high school or college.
I personally believe that dual enrollment is a good thing, though it is imperative that careful supervision takes place. Administrators, counselors, and educators must observe, in the student, a normal and healthy high school behavior. Overall, in my opinion the benefits outweigh the potential downsides. It gives the students a fantastic opportunity to challenge themselves and get an early start.
Michelle
Hello Debbie,
My school district provides a program such as the one that you are describing. Students have to meet certain criteria in order to enroll in this program. From discussing this topic with colleagues who work at the high school level, the students who have enrolled in this program have been successful.
I believe that providing our academically motivated and mature students this opportunity promotes and encourages the pursuit of education beyond high school. Many of our students are well-equipped to enter post secondary institutions and programs such as this engages them in hands-on learning; also, when these students enter a four-year institution, they are well ahead of their counterparts.
Thanks for sharing.
Stephanie
Debbie,
Dual enrollment classes, like most other things, has their pros and cons. Personally, if a student is interested, motivated, and eager to move ahead the opportunities are there. On the other hand, I must ask, why are we trying so hard to rush these kids so fast? Why happened to enjoying their teenage lives? Don't they grow up fast enough as it it?
On the other hand, some students may be more advanced than others and actually bored in high school. Dual enrollment could allow those who are motivated to move ahead. Just think, our next President or doctor with the cure for cancer might be moving quickly ahead with those dual enrollment classes. You never know.
Jeanette
I guess I am a little selfish. My four children participated in dual enrollment classes in high school in several areas from vocational to academic. Sending four through college is very expensive and every course completed saved our family many dollars. I am proud to report two with a BS. one with an A.A.S in Respritory Care, and one will graduate next year with a BS in Education. I wish more opportunities would have been available at the time.
Debbie, I talked with Terry and your Blog will be open to our system shortly.
I think the Dual Enrollment Program has its benefits, but in general do not believe it does as much as it is advertised. Many of the classes are taken by students who were going to go on to a 4 year college anyway. Realistically if they have a 2 year degree from High School and only go 2 years to a 4 year College they are not ready for the workforce. Good chance they are not mature enough, do not have enough life’s experiences, etc. Many 4 year colleges require that 120 hours be taken at the university level. For those that use the Dual enrollment classes to learn a trade and that trade with a certificate or 2 year degree is all they are going to get it could be helpful. It could also be helpful if the students took dual enrollment classes so they could start at a higher level in college and get more out of the 4 year degree. That is the best situation but certainly is not the majority of situations as advertised here in Halifax County. Of the 23 students who received a dual degree at last year’s commencement, the vast majority were among the best in the class who were going on to 4 year schools anyway. The dual enrollment classes are not helping the majority of students. The program is over inflated for the wrong reasons and unfortunately few realize it.
In Camden County, Ga. we are very fortuate the have a small college that sitsonly a few feet away from out High School. It offers dual enrollmnet for students who need the extra rigor. It is a blessing to have such a program for students who are motivated and have the drive to want to excell.
It seems to me that our county focuses so much of its time and resources to the special education students that the top students very often are there to take care of themselves with very little guidance.
As a result of this dual enrollment students have been able to leave campus and enjoy a college atmoshpere. Many of these students are not typical in the sense that they do not want tobe around the "drama" many high schools have to contend with on a daily basis. Furthermore, these students end up, once they do graduate, tranferring to top schools. We had one student last year who became a Rhodes Scholar, and many others were accepted to top notch schools.
Again, this is a great program and I hope other schools think about adding this as part of their curriculum.
Renni Wooden
We're just starting to see this in San Diego and, I must admit, I'm impressed. Why make students waste time going through the same information over and over... Each time at a little more depth. If a high school student is ready for greater depth and complexity of concepts, then move him/her through the material! Keeping the status quo, we just waste kids' time and bury their potential.
As for maturity level, in many industrialized countries students move out of compulsory education to trade school or university at age 16, and the people that I've know who have participated in these programs claimed that the main difference was the increased rigor versus U.S. schools that allowed them to cover the same distance, but in less time.
As a parent, I also can't help thinking of my own children... If they decided early on that they wanted to be professional artists, engineers, or whatever... Why not let them pursue their dreams at an early age (and save Dad a little cash)?
As a parent I'm torn about dual enrollment. I want my daughter to have a full high school experience while at the same time I see the benefit of taking college courses during high school at no cost. My daughter will not enter high school until next year. If she enters high school with the same level head she's had during middle school then she will be on track to receive a HOPE scholarship once she graduates. A Hope scholarship means finances will not be a factor when we decide in her junior year if she should take advantage of dual enrollment. For students who are ready I think it is very beneficial for them to take advantage of the program.
Mama Owen:
Thanks for the response. As a parent, I too am looking for the financial benefit of not having to pay for some of the college tuition and also getting a head start in college. My husband, on the other hand, asks me why I want to rush my children into adulthood before they have had the chance to grow and mature naturally. I'm having a problem answering that question. I chose this topic for my dissertation because I would like to be able to answer that question for the parents of those yet to make this decision. I have two children coming through high school now and both are on the dual enrollment track. My son is fairing well so far and will graduate next year with an associate degree and hopes to attend VA Tech and major in communications. He is mature beyond his years and has a pretty good head on his shoulders. I think he will be Ok because of his maturity level and hope he will take the time in college to explore other careers as well and maybe even double major. My daughter is just getting started in the dual enrollment classes so I'm not sure how she will handle them. She too is mature beyond her years, although not quite as studious as her brother. However, she is much more "street smart" and ambitious so I think she will be Ok as well. I really would like to hear from others who have first hand expereince of how this affected their college career and life experiences.
Stephanie:
Thanks for responding to my blog. I do have a question. When you say students have been successful what exactly do you mean? Do you mean they are making good grades in the class or do you mean they went to college well prepared for the next level? Have they finished college or are they just finishing high school? The reason I am asking is because my 16 year old son is taking a dual enrolled chemistry I class now and on his last report card he got a 100. I know this class is extremely hard according to all the other students and my son as well but do you think from your previous experience that he would have been better off academically to have taken a high school chemistry class and then a college chemistry class that went into more detail? I know the dual enrolled class he has in high school is more difficult than any community college class would ever be but don't know if it is to the level a university level class would have been. What are your feelings?
Debbie
Wayne:
Thanks for responding to my blog.
I agree with you on all of your comments. One of the things that has concerned me is the dual enrollment classes took the place of AP classes. The community colleges where the classes are enrolled required the teachers of dual enrollment to use the same books they are using and teach the same curriculum. That means that the teacher is intergrating curriculum required by the state of Virginia and also curriculum required by the college. That is a lot. Last year my sons biology teacher also intergrated the AP curriculum. She could do that because she had been teaching AP biology for years so it was not new to her. However, that is the only AP class we had previously. My son took the AP biology exam and did well but I don't think he will be able to do as well on the other AP exams because the other teachers will not be teaching from that curriculum. Although any student can take any AP exam he wants to spend the money to take, I don't think he would have a fair chance of doing well unless the AP curriculum has been taught in class. It will be almost impossible to combine all three curriculums into one class. My question is would the student be better off with AP credit or dual enrollment credit. The philosophy in my county is that AP is not guaranteed and dual enrollment is.
Another issue you brought up is the number of students who benefit from this program. I agree that under our conditions it is only the top 10% of the class and those 10% will more than likely go on to a four year university. However, that is also true of those who would have taken the AP classes had they been available. I guess when it comes to allocating money to students my feelings are that the special population get such a huge chunk of it that I glad to see the top 10% get something. I only wish there was something good for the middle majority.
Debbie
Dondolo:
Thanks for posting to my blog.
You brought up a point I had never considered when you said that most industrailized countries move from regular education to a career oriented training at age 16. That is true. I remember now that in an educational reform conference I attended a few years ago, there was mention of US public education as we know it stopping after 10th grade and students moving into some type of career training program. I guess the dual enrollment would be along those lines if you wanted to look at it that way. I wouldn't call what Halifax County is doing career training because we are teaching college math, science, history, english and humanities and not career prep classes such as programming etc. However, it is a fast pace to get to that point in a four year college. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.
Debbie
Jamie:
Thanks for responding to my blog.
As a parent I can feel your pain trying to decide what is best for your child. If it helps any I'll tell you my thought process. My children are taking dual enrolled classes because they are the highest level classes we have. They took the place of honors and AP in my district. Therefore they stay challenged. When they get to college, if they are not adequately prepared to advanced to the next level they will find out quicly and can drop back and retake what they have already taken. It didn't hurt them to take the dual enrolled classes and maybe it helped. We'll have to wait until they reach college to find out. Hopefully, when I am finished with my research, I can shed some more light on what students who experienced this have to say.
Debbie
Hi Debbie,
My school district allows students to enroll in dual enrollment as well. As a matter of fact, my senior year in high school (2000), I was presented with the opportunity be decided against it. I did however take 3 dual enrollment courses but not with on the track where I would've graduated with an AA degree. I think dual enrollment is great for students who are able to balance it. Every student is not able to balance going to high school and college at the same time. Especially if they are taking honors classes and or working. The dual enrollment track allows students to finish college sooner and cut down on student loans. So they will save a lot of money. My only concern is that you only get one chance to be a high school student. Once you're gone that's it. So the stress of college life has it's time and place.
Debra,
I am happy to hear that you district is taking advantage if such a magnificent opportunity. Our school district has been involved with Dual Enrollment over 10 years now and all that I can say about it is Bravo! Awesome! Incredible! At first, the articulation agreement between the community college and the district stated that any student having completed 10th grade with a 3.0 grade point average or higher, was eligible to begin the dual enrollment program (books and tuition FREE!). A student with less than a 3.0 could only take the Strategies for College Success, after which they could take more classes only if they attain a 3.0. Some students wanted to take certain courses classified as Gordon Rule. These were courses requiring significant writing and comprehension. Since the students were not yet juniors (the time when we suggest they take either the ACT or SAT college entrance exam), they were required to take a college/Computerized Placement Test (CPT). If the student scored an acceptable score, they were permitted to take that class. At any rate, students were earning high school and college grades and credits as well as establishing a college transcript simultaneously. What a wonderful opportunity for students to excel and make significant progress towards not only high school, but college graduation as well. The inclusion of the dual enrollment program in with the traditional high school program, now days, is nothing like it was ten years ago when I single-handedly dealt with all dual enrollment issues and concerns. Each counselor is now responsible for disseminating information to his or her own group of students. It is not quite as cumbersome as it once was.
We, our district, have had phenomenal success with this outstanding program. One success story of a student from my school is that she was able to complete Florida State University (undergrad), and enter the Law program within three of graduating from high school. If that is not remarkable, what is? This student returned home to serve as a State Attorney for a couple of years, and now has opened her own practice. I guess you can tell I am proud of her, huh? There is so much more that can be said, and I am willing to share more with you Debra…just let me now if I can assist you in any way.
You are going to love it!
Electlady, Annette
Hi Debbie,
We have a blog on CEP's at:
http://concurrentenrollment.blogspot.com
You should also touch base with the National Alliance of Concurrent Enrollment Partnerships (NACEP) that brings together colleges and universities involved in CEPs.
Also you can email me and I can point you to various schools CEP programs.
Late in coming .... but my concern has to do with losing scholarships. I have a young man that would have gotten a full four year scholarship except for the dual enrollment classes, CLEP exams, and AP credits he took. He was considered an incoming sophmore at the college level at 17. Will these "dual credit" programs hurt these students are was it just a fluke. I now have my 15 year old and we are considering dual credit but the loss of scholarships due to being considered a college student already could greatly hurt.
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